DIV system

[Luckyman-]

I have a wonderful proposal. We must make sure that players from the low div could not go into high if they do not have sufficient experience and winratio 60%. The same is from HIgh to League. Otherwise, the whole point of the system, which has now lost meaning, I saw a league player with the number of victories 76 and 112 losses, and he could play in the league. Everybody understands that good players can not have such statistics, so the league is the place where they will collect only the best. And the level of skill will not actually be different from low high and league, because in all leagues will play noobs. SO pls do it, or div its not interesting place for playing for mid-high skilled players.

[Aravis]

NO, sometimes you have just bad luck with the team, due to bad picks, leavers, noobs.
If you have a bad ratio you still can be good. That shows with exp, as you loose only a few with a loss then.
A bad player will loose much exp at a loss and thus never make it to high/league.

[hans2]

because of balance everybody will end 50% winratio (its forced by bot balance) so I cant real use winratio to determin skill

I use winratio for balancing games

[ZhouHuaN]

I have a wonderful proposal. We must make sure that players from the low div could not go into high if they do not have sufficient experience and winratio 60%. The same is from HIgh to League. Otherwise, the whole point of the system, which has now lost meaning, I saw a league player with the number of victories 76 and 112 losses, and he could play in the league. Everybody understands that good players can not have such statistics, so the league is the place where they will collect only the best. And the level of skill will not actually be different from low high and league, because in all leagues will play noobs. SO pls do it, or div its not interesting place for playing for mid-high skilled players.


I don't think it is a very good idea to do that. I don't want to sound arrogant but I think I am better than most of players of this league but I still can't win some games because of some horrible players. My last 4 games, I got techie in my team and when you have techie in a team and your opponents are not 100% idiots, they will buy a geme which means that the game will be a 5vs4.

Moreover, a lot of players pick their favorite heroes and don't think about strategies etc. Today, I played a game where my "allies" (If I can call them like that) had picked 4 agi heroes, only range, no stuns so it is hard to win a game when you have such allies.

[Luckyman-]

Thats why i talk about something to change. How noob player with stat 78\116 can have 3000 exp? He should have >1000 and play div LOW

[Aravis]

Tell us the nick or this player doesnt exist.
Anyways, if hes a noob player he will loose and be out of league soon?

[Luckyman-]

NO he cant be out of league. Can u understand that? Today i have played with player who has 334\378 games and he has 3k exp. Until nothing changes I'll be playing elsewhere and will not waste my precious time to play with blunt noobs. If u dont trust me? i can play more games and post replays to see which noobs play high div.

And hans2, u can do like in IHL bot which balance BY WINratio. Nothing difficult. Just change balance system.

[hans2]

winratio says nothing as all player end up 50%
dont expect 3k player to play like 10k player (else they would have 10k)

[Pthirus_pubis]

srsly if u have a win ratio of 40% and 3k exp, that tells me that its a pretty good player with unbelevable bad luck. as its a closed system, this means i has to dominate in his wins to gain the 3k exp OVER the mass looses and/or be the only one in his loosing team that rox so he doesnt loose that much. If its a bad player, that causes his own losses, so he gets 40% win ratio. Then he wouldt have 3k exp, since he is bound to suck if he causes the 60% looses of his games wich means he has to pay a lot of exp for the winning team, for feeding bad farm etc and thus sucking etc. someone with 40% win ratio and 3k exp desevred these 3k exp more than anyone else in my eyes

edit: by the way there are people with 700 games and 300 exp in safelow, div isnt a system where u get exp for mass playing

[Luckyman-]

well? ill post here some replayes and u all see about what skill i am telling here.

[Nowocipki]

lol luckyman, stop acting like you are a pro player, because you are not. Don't cry for playing lvl, if you don't like it, you don't need to play it.

[Luckyman-]

Low skilled nowocipki which was banned at ihl welcome.

[mindtrix]

Everyone thinks they are the best. You ppl playing safegames cant say that everyone is nawb when u cant even reach league.
I have my ups and downs, 4.5k - 700 exp in 2 days. Sure i had some discs, bad team and so on. But still, mostly my own fault.

I think the league is good as it is. Only would wish for reconnect function as in HoN. But thats a blizzproblem..

Keep up the good work Hansi!

[Luckyman-]

Well, i am so bored of this shit. We need to change score of the game. If u have a leaver in your team - u will not lose exp and u will not get it. Ull have 0 exp for this game. Its fucking unfair to play all game 4 v 5 and lose 150 exp, bc someone noob feed at the begin and leave.Make it like in sig. Only leaver lose exp.

[schoschy]

can i tell you guys something? 1 sec before i had a game, ill show you something out of it...
http://www3.pic-upload.de/25.07.10/733224l25yn.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-6468651/dota.jpg.html)
as you can see, you dont have to care for noobs, i was in looser team and you see that i also have a streak of -11 now, coz i was 11 times in a looser team now, so my exp is gone from 1500 to 500 ore something, but 11 looses with 5 leaves in it '(dont as me why) and only 1k exp...
I only can say, learn dota and you wont loose that much exp with a loss.

[Luckyman-]

Dude, i lose -12 exp sometimes, but when u pick support - u cant have very good stat and u will lose about 100 exp 100% always.

[D.W.M.C]

Dude, i lose -12 exp sometimes, but when u pick support - u cant have very good stat and u will lose about 100 exp 100% always.

Supporterheroes has a higher win-ratio thus losing 100EXP is fine since you win +50% of your games..

[schoschy]

Supporterheroes has a higher win-ratio thus losing 100EXP is fine since you win +50% of your games..

you have spoken my words :-D

[Shakrina]

Well, i am so bored of this shit. We need to change score of the game. If u have a leaver in your team - u will not lose exp and u will not get it. Ull have 0 exp for this game. Its fucking unfair to play all game 4 v 5 and lose 150 exp, bc someone noob feed at the begin and leave.Make it like in sig. Only leaver lose exp.

Sig is build by noobs for noobs, just return with these gay doter and stop cry about xp system of DIV. DIV xp system is the best. Last hit, denie, death , kill etc etc, all part of skills//unskills count. If u can lost 150xp in a 4v5 its just cause u are NOOB, if u never win 4v5 its also cause u are NOOB.

Can't believe ther eis DL players for blame DIV.
Fuck DL the country of dota tards.

[Aravis]

I'd like too see a little adjustment too. If someone leaves, he looses always about 150 exp. Imo they should stay within the team, so that everyone looses ~38 exp less if the 4 team looses.

[Luckyman-]

Shakrina
Pls stop talking shit ok baby? Just check this replay http://www.mymgn.com/board/showthread.php?43671-That-s-how-fucking-noobs-get-into-the-league-or-HIGH-skilled-and-then-suck-out-there.

[MORDAX]

noob teams is no excuse -
how can i win 80% of all my normal pubs? (i play at a stat bot often)
how can players like Hexor win 75%+ out of sig 3000 games? (Dl is using a balancing system! - even if it is bad you see the point..)
i dont know if that counts for div league because i dont know how the balancing system works.

how does it work? (u can post me a link aswell but i found nothing right now)

OT:
it realy should not be possible to join league with 35% wins like the example someone posted...
there realy should be a must have win % at least at 50% or maybe even at 45%

[Knight925]

I'd like too see a little adjustment too. If someone leaves, he looses always about 150 exp. Imo they should stay within the team, so that everyone looses ~38 exp less if the 4 team looses.

*totally signed!!!!!*

only loosing 50 xp for leaving?
if your team was balanced before they now will loose
that means they will loose 80-180 xp each
so the one that caused the loss looses less than the ppl who stayed? something is wrong here i think.....

easy solution:
make leaving cost u 150

if somebody really feeds and u want him out for his items + gold you can still just kick him

Sorry, but leavers have no right to play in div-high or div-league!


NOW THE MORE COMPLEX SOLUTION

Idea:
1. Leavers destroy the game: leaving should hurt much more than additional 50!
2. Somebody who leaves early will hurt the team much more than if he leaves very late. so the early leavers should be hurt more! if they leave late the team at least gets a lot of gold and items and had the support of the left hero for the time before. if he leaves early the team has to make up for the missing farming, denies and gang-support

so i would suggest:
xp-loss = 200 * (60-[gameminute])/60

This will lead to the following:
Leaving after firstblood = loosing xp close to 200!
leaving after 10min = loosing 167xp
leaving after 20min = loosing 133xp
leaving after 30min = loosing 100 xp
leaving after 40min = loosing 67 xp
etc

this xp should still be split up in between the remaining players
u might wanna change the maximum lost xp or the time of 60min which i took but i figured a imaginary maximum of +50 exp for each remaining player if one player leaves right away would be ok.

I read something about some xp bonus if u happen to win a unbalanced game. i thought its a closed system so i dont know how that can be. whatever. if the 0-50 exp for everybody in addition to the win bonus are too much, just lessen the winbonus so it fits. leavers loss is much more important than unbalanced winners gains. This is obvious because what we want is NOT the xp-bonus when somebody leaves but that NOBODY leaves and everybody that does looses harsh amounts of xp!

[hans2]

basicall a div game should be balanced from start (lets put stack issues aside)
so play 100 games should give 0 exp for all
lets assume there is always one leaver for team 1 and they still play 100 games
its should still end give 0 exp for all

so basically the leaverbonus just keep the avg exp gain to 0
it will not be positive (which is a big scoring flaw)

to add some numbers

normal game is exp 100:-100
leaver game is on lose -88 on win +140

so with one leaver when u win 100 games u can lose 160 games and still come out even

[Knight925]

Im not saying that your system isnt a closed one!
it certainly is!
but it gives and takes exp points in a wrong way, not punishing the leaver enough!
Also it could give the bigger team a small malus, after all its a heavy advantage!


THIS IS THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW


===Normal game===
winning player = +100
loosing player = -100

winning team = winning player * 5 = 500
loosing team = loosing player * 5 = -500

sure that works out

===Game with one leaver - leavers team wins===
winning player = +140
loosing player = -100 (assuming thats how it is)
leaving player = -50

winning team = winning player * 4 = 560
loosing team = loosing player * 5 = -500
leaving player = -50

===Game with one leaver - leavers team looses===
winning player = +100 (assuming thats how it is)
loosing player = -88
leaving player = -50

winning team = winning player * 5 = 500
loosing team = loosing player * 4 = -352
leaving player = -50

here it doesnt even work out because it adds up to 400. dont know what is the case here
dont know which actual numbers u put for the unaffected team, but it really doesnt matter because the problem is the leaver doesnt loose enough. there is one leaver in about ever 2. game. actually in 4 of my last 6 on divhigh

NOW MY PROPOSAL

games without a leaver can stay as they are with +100 -100
But games with one leaver should be different!
in my equation i use the variable MALUS which is defined like the following (might be changes though)
in the case u want the team without a leaver to be affected too i put in the optional variable BONUS. if you dont just leave it to be 0. i just put it to 50



MALUS = 200 * (60-[gameminute])/60
BONUS = 50

===Game with one leaver - leavers team wins===
winning player = 100 + MALUS/4 + BONUS/4 + 100/4
loosing player = -100 -BONUS/5
leaving player = -MALUS

winning team = winning player * 4 = 400 + MALUS + BONUS + 100 = 500 + MALUS + BONUS
loosing team = loosing player * 5 = -500 -BONUS
leaving player = -MALUS

===Game with one leaver - leavers team looses===
winning player = 100 -BONUS/5
loosing player = -100 +MALUS/4 + BONUS/4 + 100/4
leaving player = -MALUS

winning team = winning player * 5 = 500 -BONUS
loosing team = loosing player * 4 = -400 +MALUS +BONUS + 100 = 500 + BONUS + MALUS
leaving player = -MALUS


The leaver gets a heavy malus [0-200]
In my example the smaller team gehts the +-100 but an additional +12 (BONUS) and +[0-50] (MALUS)
The bigger team gets the +-100 but looses an additional -10 (BONUS)
This should make Div-Games leaver-free, at least the higher classes like divhigh and divleague

[Aravis]

The system could stay closed if you punish leavers harder. Just give the +exp to the team that has to suffer.

[hans2]

try think div like a poker game
everybody pays 100 exp to play
depending on handicap some pay more some pay less
the winning team (without leaver) get the jackpot

lets assume u win alone in the end with 4 leaver you pay 100 exp to start game and win 1000 exp jackpot

ofc there is more scoring thats the basics of div

[Knight925]

Yes but when u get killed, loose towers etc you have to take additional exp from your savings and put em into the game in order to stay in. those will end up on the winners gain at the end.
our proposal is to just make the leavers have to pay a fee for doing so, which ends up at his teammates account no matter what. on some professional games you have to buy yourself out too. a professional soccer player that doesnt play for private reasons also has to pay a lot of money! and in soccer at least they can put annother guy for him. in dota thats NOT possible!

so pls raise those ridiculous low 50xp, because there is a leave in AT LEAST every 2 games currently in divhigh
thats basicly because 50 is nothing! but makes your whole team loose lots of xp if teams are balanced (which the bot usually does)
its a missconcept to balance the teams and allow anybody to mess the balance up afterwards so easily

it doesnt really hurt the closed system nor the league to raise the leaving fee it just gets rid of those damn leavers in the higher leagues. i hate it when im on a streak and than 2 of my mates leave even if they game was going nice. streak messed up...

[hans2]

I tried once 75 exp for leaving but it turned out it was too much

e.g. with 3 leaver u get then 225 bonus for remqaining 2 which is like a free game to win

[Knight925]

1.if u have 3 leavers in your team and its 2v5:
sorry dude its just fair that the remaining 2 dont loose points!
there is no way to win this! i dont see that its a mistake to dont make the poor remains loose points for such a crappy game!
have you every played a game which was 3v5 from the start? ^^ not to mention 2v5....

2.if you really want to punish the team with the leavers that badly than i beg you:
at least double the leavers loss and split the other half to the opponent team
its them who made him leave after all (:

3. i still suggest that you do something like the formular i said. even if somebody leaves right away thats still not even 50 for everybody.
the only problem i see is that ppl on the lower classes like playall and divlow abuse that to make ppl leave with fake accounts. but u can easily counter this by making it only that harsh on divhigh and divleague
or even better:
take my formula, but it can never be more than the exp the guy had before the game, but always a minimum of 50
this way the points have to been earned at some point and its closed again

[D.W.M.C]

1.if u have 3 leavers in your team and its 2v5:
sorry dude its just fair that the remaining 2 dont loose points!
there is no way to win this! i dont see that its a mistake to dont make the poor remains loose points for such a crappy game!
have you every played a game which was 3v5 from the start? ^^ not to mention 2v5....


A lose is a lose.. I actually agree with hans the more I think about it..
If you have 3 leavers in your team you'll lose no matter what..
If you have 3 feeders in your team you'll lose no matter what. but you will lose a lot more..

Ofc its not your fault that some of your teammates left, but that is just bad luck.. And as hans2 said: If 3 people leave, the 2 remaining players will get +100 EXP, which is like winning a game, and that is too much..

[Pthirus_pubis]

and honestly did u never win a game because an enemy left? dont always look at one side, with mass games it gotta be random in wich team someone leaves, so its even, only if u are the reason for people to leave u might get more leavers on ur team

[Knight925]

You guys siriously didnt get my point ^^
I even wrote i dont care if the points are split up the the bigger team too or lost completly or divided to all players playing div!
it doesnt matter where those xp go but they have to get away from the leaver!

this is ment to be a messure to prevent leavers from doing so in the first place not to get some exp advantage to somebody.
somebody who leaves 1 out of 2 games shouldnt be allowed to stay in a high league.....
i dont want those ppl in my team but also dont want them in the opposite team! i want them gone!
and leaving is just no big deal right now thats why there is a leaver in above 50% of the games!

id gladly give away 100 xp for every constant leaver in a higher league if that makes them go away!

[D.W.M.C]

You guys siriously didnt get my point ^^
I even wrote i dont care if the points are split up the the bigger team too or lost completly or divided to all players playing div!
it doesnt matter where those xp go but they have to get away from the leaver!

this is ment to be a messure to prevent leavers from doing so in the first place not to get some exp advantage to somebody.
somebody who leaves 1 out of 2 games shouldnt be allowed to stay in a high league.....
i dont want those ppl in my team but also dont want them in the opposite team! i want them gone!
and leaving is just no big deal right now thats why there is a leaver in above 50% of the games!

id gladly give away 100 xp for every constant leaver in a higher league if that makes them go away!

wtb add a "leaver" status along with the stats.. When leaver% is >10%, the exp is automatically nullified.. (10% just an example)

[Knight925]

that destroys the closed system even more than putting 150xp to waste everytime
but i wouldnt mind ^^

just giving some xp to the opponent team for having enough skill to "make them leave" would be an ok way to increase it still (:

[D.W.M.C]

that destroys the closed system even more than putting 150xp to waste everytime
but i wouldnt mind ^^

just giving some xp to the opponent team for having enough skill to "make them leave" would be an ok way to increase it still (:

No it doesn't? :>
I never said we should remove the leaver penalty.. But when a player reach 10% leaver, he loses all his EXP next time he joins a lobby..

[Pthirus_pubis]

No it doesn't? :>
I never said we should remove the leaver penalty.. But when a player reach 10% leaver, he loses all his EXP next time he joins a lobby..

u dont even have to do the penalty via exp, u could say that someone with above 10% leave (maybe a bit more every 10th game isnt thaaat serious if u imagine that someone maybe has a bad inet ceonnection) so maybe 15% cant join league no matter the exp and if u have above 20-25% u cant even join safehigh and are stuck in safelow until u have endured enough games that ur % rises again :), no prob with the closed system, maybe could throw off the balance in safelow pretty hard if there is some 4k player. There are other possibilitys like making it impossible for someone with more than 20% leave to go over 4k exp or smth, if he wins a game with 4k his gain is divided among his teammates or all players, until he is lover than 20% leave again, all this doesnt affect the closed system.

Only problem in the first idea is that someone could earn exp like a bitch in safelow and then jump up to leage with 10k he doesnt deserve. On the other hand he´d get the biggest nab allies there are in the entire dota-universe

[D.W.M.C]

A lot easier just to say: "You're a leaver. Back in safelow"
Same as a ban..

Leaving before FB should imo count as a leave.. So people better leave before FB with care (:

[bobo)ftw]

if it is possible, hans u would make 1 thing...if player leaves, then he wouldnt play div games for 30 min, it would be a good punishment :)

[Kari9]

Hi!

Im quite new to div league... but got question hope its not stupid or im not spamming but anyway...

I've got a problem, my experiance is sth about above 3k points got G:21 W:17 L:4 and I cant play any game... im trying to join div league game but i get observer or kicked everygame and I cant join lower game. I also cant find any playall game so tell me how can I jump into better stats to get acces for those games...? Atleast there should be more div league games so I can try it more ofen to play it...

Div league is sth like 1 game in quene at once :(

Or mb there is any possibility to cr8 a game ?

Plz help me cause i enjoy this league and I cant play it :(

[D.W.M.C]

Hi!

Im quite new to div league... but got question hope its not stupid or im not spamming but anyway...

I've got a problem, my experiance is sth about above 3k points got G:21 W:17 L:4 and I cant play any game... im trying to join div league game but i get observer or kicked everygame and I cant join lower game. I also cant find any playall game so tell me how can I jump into better stats to get acces for those games...? Atleast there should be more div league games so I can try it more ofen to play it...

Div league is sth like 1 game in quene at once :(

Or mb there is any possibility to cr8 a game ?

Plz help me cause i enjoy this league and I cant play it :(

Did you try DIV-SAFEHIGH games?
If you can't find any games in the list, try to add a specific bot to your friendlist and use /whois on them..

You can find an old list of botnames here (http://www.codelain.com/forum/index.php?topic=12872.0)

[Kari9]

Did you try DIV-SAFEHIGH games?
If you can't find any games in the list, try to add a specific bot to your friendlist and use /whois on them..

You can find an old list of botnames here (http://www.codelain.com/forum/index.php?topic=12872.0)

Yes I've tryed savehigh bot says im not able to play it but I may observe it...

The problem is that I can see list of games at www.div-league.com but as I told u there is only 1 game div league and bot kicks me from game or im observer aswell becasue all ppl joining got more experiance than me... :( is there anything I can do to join game and dont get kick or become a observer ...?

[Pthirus_pubis]

Yes I've tryed savehigh bot says im not able to play it but I may observe it...

The problem is that I can see list of games at www.div-league.com but as I told u there is only 1 game div league and bot kicks me from game or im observer aswell becasue all ppl joining got more experiance than me... :( is there anything I can do to join game and dont get kick or become a observer ...?

not rly, u have to endure it every game u win in league makes it easier to stay as u get more exp, with more than 4k u already have a good chance to stay in game even if the gm is a slow one. Its easier late at night or early, between 16.00 and midnight its nearly impossible tough :(

[Kari9]

not rly, u have to endure it every game u win in league makes it easier to stay as u get more exp, with more than 4k u already have a good chance to stay in game even if the gm is a slow one. Its easier late at night or early, between 16.00 and midnight its nearly impossible tough :(

yea... that's the problem i work from 10 - 18 so i can play mostly only during high activity :(
So i guess there is no soultion for me ? Only by keep trying...?

[Pthirus_pubis]

yea... that's the problem i work from 10 - 18 so i can play mostly only during high activity :(
So i guess there is no soultion for me ? Only by keep trying...?

yap ur situation is somewhat fucked... the borders change sometimes so depending on ur exp u might be lucky and are able to join a safehigh game at a certain day when the exp borders are high (they are made depending on the exp of active players) win a game there and it gets easier.

[D.W.M.C]

yea... that's the problem i work from 10 - 18 so i can play mostly only during high activity :(
So i guess there is no soultion for me ? Only by keep trying...?

Then you're able to have at least 1 game each morning from 8:30-> :P At least untill you can join during the evening..