About low level div, the xp system and autobalance

[naphack]

Safelow games and even playall games are a bitch.
usually, some player with a new accounts gets threated as as good as some guy whos on a 7 game loss streak and hasn't won a single game.
A solution would be either giving all players 500 xp to start with or allowing the xp to drop to values below zero. this would effectively give the system better xp ranges to toy with and also allow for a better assessment for balance purposes.

Another thing, which bothers me is autovote for mvp.
t just seems so random and always chooses the player with the least teamwork and highest creep stats as "most valuable" player, even, when the team had won without some fag, farming for 40 minutes while they just punch their opponents and then comes out to grab some kills.

I for my part tend to mvp some nice player of the opposing team, when I realize, noone of my team deserves it, just cause I don't eant absolute randomness determine, who gets more xp/looses less.
another point, I'd like to add is mvp sometimes not working correctly, most times with leavers or people, leaving just before scoring happens.

There should be the possibility to "null" mvp and also some encouragement for players to vote the mvp of the game.
Another Point, I really have to come up with is the xp itself. Levelling in DiV is all about scoring kills and picking carries. When playing supporters, you usually turn out losing xp or at least having to play like a ton of games for some small xp improvement, while carries can usually score in about 400 xp a game, when properly played, especially in safelow, where you usually got a bunch of idiots who don't know how to ff, when riki gets diffusal blade and beyond godlike after like 15 minutes, doubling the level of any other hero in the game.(yes, thats an extreme example, but I still think, I lost more xp to ppl, unable to ff than to my own stupid suicide deaths.)

Additionally, bring cm games back, they were really fun and enjoyable! just needs some tweaking at capt choice imho.

[Pthirus_pubis]

first of all i too think there should be a supporetr bonus if there is a bonus/penalty for feeding owning, like giving someone a bonus if he has 4 assists more than the rest of the team and a penalty if he got more than 4 assists less than the rest of the team or smth. And about the rest, -exp would make it impossible to join any game as ud get upgraded in a split second, resulting in mass accounts with -100 exp and people creating new ones. 500 start exp would pump in mass exp noone rly deserved, its supposed to be a closed system after all. The problem with the autovote of mvp is not the autovote itself but the fact that all these tards are too lazy to choose the right player... And a carry only gets 400 exp if he gets all mvp ownage bonus etc... if u got smth like 6:3 with a carry no mvp and no ownage (obviously) u still only got 100-150 exp

[Wandang]

i dont get ur mvp point.
automvp's only purpose is to encourage player to vote.
if u dont want to vote then dont do it... its free Oo"

[Hades)]

Yeah the Supportbonus would be great since I was babysitting a balanar with my wisp in safehigh throughout the whole game. He ended up with like 350 exp and I got about 150 thanks to 6 mvp awards...

I mean if you are looking at this result it is becoming obvious why everyone in Safe doees instantpick heroes like riki baka etc.
Playing a Support is just not worth it atm...

[Knight925]

Well ^^
thats why u need to be good enough to get to div-league
if u have a 5-carry team there your opponents will first laugh at you and afterwards slowly squeeze u to death (:

i think the mvp-awards are somewhat heavily based on assists
though thats kind of your supporter bonus (:
thats the way i see it at least (:

[Pthirus_pubis]

Well ^^
thats why u need to be good enough to get to div-league
if u have a 5-carry team there your opponents will first laugh at you and afterwards slowly squeeze u to death (:
wich doesnt mean that this doesnt happen every second game

[Hades)]

Well I am able to play league, that was just an example of former times =)
But its a fact, that it is very rare that you have someone in your team who wants ti babysit a carry.
And still lets say u are rly skilled and lucky enough in a game to be not killed when playing a supporter, you get 0-0-25 (seriously utopic) so you get a maximum of 130 exp without leaver player and balance bonuses, if you had average farm and denies.
Lets say, people in the game realised, damn they won cuz of pro support
Then you get 9x mvp (talking about the maximum here) which means +80 exp.

To sum it up: Even if you play a perfect supporter, whos role is obviously the mist important one, you can get a maximum of 210 xp ignoring leave player and balance bonuses.

The Carry can get much more exp, lets say he gets 25 kills and does not die and 0 Assistents.
25x5=125 + 50 Rampage xp =175 + 100 winxp = 275 + very nice farm twrs etc = 375 exp.
Possibly mvp here is leeding to over 400 xp.

But the carry did just lasthit and the support like wisp saved his ass like 10x.

Thats why there should be a supportbonus of like 50 xp which is taken from the carty with the most kills in the team due to the closed system...

[SIark.]

Thats why there should be a supportbonus of like 50 xp which is taken from the carty with the most kills in the team due to the closed system...

how do u mean that? carty?

[bobo)ftw]

how do u mean that? carty?

*carry...lol :D watch keyboard. T is near R so it could be mistake

[SIark.]

omg y ^^ i tried to decode the word but failed

and how should the bot know whether a hero is played as a supporter? there are also abbas etc. playing as carries lol

[Hades)]

I was talking about real supporters.
I mean noone will be so stupid to play maiden with 2 divines and 500hp -_-
There are some Heroes that just can be support like Maiden Wisp.

There should be a bonus, for the most assists or sth, for Warding and chicken, etc pp

It has actually happened that the Support of a team did gain -20 exp at a won game.
That is not fair imo. The Support did his job rly great and due to him, the game was a win, he warded, supportet with mekansm & pipe and acquired chick+upgrade...

[SIark.]

hmm true, but these heroes have a really high chance to win a game (guardian 60%, far seer 59%, cm 56% or something like that) so it is kinda balanced.
the winchance of (i think) all carries is below 50%... but still sucks that everybody picks carries - true

whether its better that supporting heroes get extraexp for their assists should be discussed since there are heroes like zeus who could abuse it

im sure the bot couldnt award things like warding etc. ... maybe through the mates who can award u for supporting, but this is just another abusingfactor

[Hades)]

Hmm...
Yes winchances are high, but most People playing Wisp, do not play him as a babysitter, far seer is not a supporter aswell...
But its fact, that Supporters are hard to manage, and need much skill to be played correctly.
Since that, you can win a game without a Hardcarry, but you can not win a game without Supporter.
Why should a non-5-carry-team else lose vs a Carry babysitted by a skilled support player in like 2v5... ?

[Knight925]

Nobody can really give all 90+ heroes a xp bonus or malus in a fair way and rmked after every dota-patch ^^
this is just far too much work and too much to argue about

im rather spreading my idea about basing it on heroes beeing played more or less often. (:

[Hades)]

But if you watch heroes like Meepo or Invoker now, they are not rly often played but if they are played the right way the can totally turn the tide of the game... So giving such heroes an exp advantage would be fair, because they are rly hard to play... (such as potm & pudge e.g.)

But, isn't there a "Hero balance bonus xp" ? :o

[SIark.]

y but i think the balance isnt based on how hard it is to play a hero O.o i think winratio of heroes or something..and getting exp for picking a special hero isnt a good idea imo^^

[Pthirus_pubis]

y but i think the balance isnt based on how hard it is to play a hero O.o i think winratio of heroes or something..and getting exp for picking a special hero isnt a good idea imo^^

y u can check that win ratio (and other statistics) with ".hero techies" for example

[SIark.]

yup that means ur supporters get even less exp for getting picked hades :D

but really, a wisp with 60% winratio, dont care about a few exp, you win anyway ^^

[Hades)]

Lol that would be not really fair, because its a fact that the Support wins the game <_<

I am not rly used to Wisp anyway, I've got more a fable for Supports like Rhasta and Dazzle x)

Elsewise my simple Akasha solo mid strat works good xD

Btw:


Well ^^
thats why u need to be good enough to get to div-league
if u have a 5-carry team there your opponents will first laugh at you and afterwards slowly squeeze u to death (:

I just played an AP League game and the opponents rushed for mortred barathrum slark void and spectre...

I simply countered their imba pwnz0r carries with a Lina for nuking their LowHP ass off.

Now guess who won x)

Okay this is just one of many many decent games in League, but there are still such games without even a proper disable / carry /support / tank line up...
In the -cm Games it does mostly work good, if the Captain is not a real retard, which has just happened a few hours ago -_-
Thank god my team was smart enough to cancel the game ^^

[SIark.]

ah, i think i know what u mean^^

picking a supporter is a big advantage for the team especially for the mates because THEY profit from u picking a supporter and THEY get most exp ... ?^^

[Hades)]

Exactly, you got my point. :)

[hans2]

div is free
when u think suporter give you more wins play supporter
when u think carry give you more wins play carry
or play caster when u think its best for you

maybe watch at team setup or enemy before picking but whatever you play you win you lose