kills +5points assists +1point ? WTF?

[MORDAX]

erm can u tell me the big difference between the person who actually gets the kill and the person who helped to make kill?

why does the killer get 5times the points of the assister?

[Pthirus_pubis]

imagine a pit doing his fire rain, then run back to base. he gets 5 assists (lets say his team kills the enemys) so 25 points for that and everyone else had to fight for 1-2 kills meaning 10 points... ofc killsteal is the other extreme, but u can get a assist way to easy with little effort, thus 5 points would be a bit much, and since its pretty impossible, to make the bot choose between a helpful and a useless assist its ok i think, but i still would like 2 points better instead of 1 ...

[D.W.M.C]

The very best IMO would be if kills gave +5-(1*assists) and assists still counts as 1..

Assisters take 1 point each and the killer gets the rest..

[Schiggy]

First time i aggre with you. My options i had more like if i understand hans2 right, 2points for assist and 4 for kill. So kill isnt' that much but still mucher. And assist get too little bit more

[Aravis]

I agree with dwmc, but i guess its not codeable.
As far as i know the map gives only the ouput of player total kills/assits..., hence you cant tell which persons you assisted, and should be getting less exp.

[Wandang]

good suggestion dwmc!

@aravis: if a hero gets killed there is a messege "x pwnd y, assists by a + b"
so the bot could take that messege or the trigger for it (the messege is most likely formed by $player variables) and give points based on that.

[hans2]

as div is somewhat closed i must let someboday pay for exp
so assumed i give 5 exp for kill and 5 exp for assist (lol) enemy team should pay?

[D.W.M.C]

as div is somewhat closed i must let someboday pay for exp
so assumed i give 5 exp for kill and 5 exp for assist (lol) enemy team should pay?

With my suggestion the killing team gets +5 while the dead hero gets -5 no matter what..
Currently, its possible for the killing team to get +9 while the dead guy still gets -5..

I'm absolutely sure its codeable since you just use the info given after every kill (Player 1 pwned Player 6. Assists: Player 2, Player 3 and Player 4..

In this scenario each assister takes 1 point each.. 5-3=+2 for the killer.

So:
Solokill: +5 (Without help T-up and +5 is fair)
Kill with assist: +4 for the killer ; +1 for the assister. (Good effort, good reward)
Kill with 2 assists: +3 for the killer ; +1 for each assister (*If you killsteal, you even get less than currently - which will discourage killstealing with 1/10000 xD But still more than 0? :D.)
Kill with 3 assists: +2 for the killer ; +1 for each assister (Almost took the whole team to kill, hence the lasthitter shouldn't be rewarded too much)
and
Kill with 4 assists: +1 for the killer ; +1 for each assister. (This only happens in big fights or a full-team-gank, hence the lasthitter didn't work harder than the others = equal reward)

P.S. I wouldn't call this "My suggestion" really :P The idea came up back in the DIV v2.0, I just remembered it, cause its great imo!

[Pthirus_pubis]

With my suggestion the killing team gets +5 while the dead hero gets -5 no matter what..
Currently, its possible for the killing team to get +9 while the dead guy still gets -5..

I'm absolutely sure its codeable since you just use the info given after every kill (Player 1 pwned Player 6. Assists: Player 2, Player 3 and Player 4..

In this scenario each assister takes 1 point each.. 5-3=+2 for the killer.

So:
Solokill: +5 (Without help T-up and +5 is fair)
Kill with assist: +4 for the killer ; +1 for the assister. (Good effort, good reward)
Kill with 2 assists: +3 for the killer ; +1 for each assister (*If you killsteal, you even get less than currently - which will discourage killstealing with 1/10000 xD But still more than 0? :D.)
Kill with 3 assists: +2 for the killer ; +1 for each assister (Almost took the whole team to kill, hence the lasthitter shouldn't be rewarded too much)
and
Kill with 4 assists: +1 for the killer ; +1 for each assister. (This only happens in big fights or a full-team-gank, hence the lasthitter didn't work harder than the others = equal reward)

P.S. I wouldn't call this "My suggestion" really :P The idea came up back in the DIV v2.0, I just remembered it, cause its great imo!


but still the problem that u get an assist with pretty much nothing, u´d have to make the bot make a difference between a actual useful assist like a stun, a slow spell , much dmg etc and a aoe spell that dealt 6 dmg on the enemy, a hero with big aoe effects, that dont deal much dmg or anything (necro dmg aura, dunno if it gives assists) would pwn the entire team points. Not every assist is rly helpful

[D.W.M.C]

but still the problem that u get an assist with pretty much nothing, u´d have to make the bot make a difference between a actual useful assist like a stun, a slow spell , much dmg etc and a aoe spell that dealt 6 dmg on the enemy, a hero with big aoe effects, that dont deal much dmg or anything (necro dmg aura, dunno if it gives assists) would pwn the entire team points. Not every assist is rly helpful

Thats not possible..
A simular scenario would be a killsteal.. The bot can't tell if you deserve the kill or not..

imo this is as good as it gets..


make the bot make a difference between a actual useful assist like a stun, a slow spell , much dmg etc
Well.. DotA is strange.. e.g. Silencer ulti doesnt give assist even tho it can be crucial in ganks as well as in big fights..

[Pthirus_pubis]

well im not saying i dont like ur idea, but its a bit much, that u get ur kill reduced to 1 point, in teamfights 4 assists is pretty normal. THat will make solo killers like clinkz, gondar or even techies more common, and it will make aoe-spell supporter somewhat hated as in "stealing my kill points" "get the fuck off i can kill him solo" etc. So i think smth like
0-1 assist 5 points
2-3 assist 4 points
4 assists 3 points
would be better... I for example would get these solo killers, since u gain way more points (in the first place with the new ownage bonus) There is at least twice the gain for kills that way, i know that isnt the effect u hope for, but u dont rly think people will do anything else.. do u? :/

and i think killsteal isnt that big a problem, most people i play with dont do it, and if they do its mostly not intended. The way bigger problem are players going solo all game, farming etc and that would increase.

[MORDAX]

come on for me it is just kills=assists.

there are always kills or lasthits where you ONLY participate with the lasthit...
i mean it's total random who get's the kill as long as noone killsteals - and increasing the points for assists would make killsteal not so dramatic.

there is no difference between K and A - most kills are the result of 2or3 people working together where noone is more important then the other...

at least 2 or 3 points should be worth an assist....

But i dont think this will be changed bec the actual players played a lot games with the actual point system.

[Pthirus_pubis]

come on for me it is just kills=assists.

there are always kills or lasthits where you ONLY participate with the lasthit...
i mean it's total random who get's the kill as long as noone killsteals wich. - and incresaing the points for assists would make killsteal not so dramatic.

there is no difference between K and A - most kills are the result of 2or3 people working together where noone is more important then the other...

at least 2 or 3 points should be worth an assist....

But i dont think this will be changed bec the actual players played a lot games with the actual point system.
the problem is that assists are the one thing that is free and no enemy got to pay fo the points, if ud make an assist 3 points, a kill would cost the victim 5 points and the team gains 5 for the kill and up to 4x3 for the assists... as it is supposed to be aclosed system, u´d have to make the victim pay for it, so his death would cost 17 points. i guess everyone would pick leo then, and if they dont get him leave before fb or smth like that.
In that sense dwmc suggestion is way better, caus it actually supports the closed system more than the actual assist system we got, i like the idea for that, but i still think the kill should be worth a bit more, even if it isnt fair, a kill is a kill there should be a motivation for it. at some point people will stay in wood for 167 minutes farm and denie creeps becaus fighting doesnt give u shit

[MORDAX]

pretty sure you talk shit because IF it was right then you loose 9 points when you get killed with 4 assists in the actual point system...

you dont get - points for every one who gets + points for your kill...

wtf you talking about....


death is constant -5 pts and no assist stacking - points .....

the actual point system isn't closed as well ( like you said) - victim gets -5 killer gets +5 all assisterS get +1 -> no closed system

[it's 8 in the morning and i am tired sry when i completely missunderstood you :))

[naphack]

well all that with the closed system bothers me.
Just see it that way:
-leave before fb: -50, -100, ... xp
-swap accounts: -400 xp
-feeder and rampage +50/-50 aren't as evenly distributed as one might think. feeder seems to be more common than rampage.

so without assists bringing in some extra xp, the mvp boni can't maintain the xp ranges at themselves, DIV would slowly run out of xp points.

Edit: on the other hand, theres plenty of players, joining with 0 xp and feeding someone badly, then disappearing again, so it moght aswell be the other way round.

[D.W.M.C]

come on for me it is just kills=assists.


I guess I would play Zeus or Spectre any game then =)

[MORDAX]

I guess I would play Zeus or Spectre any game then =)
point whore!
:)

[Pthirus_pubis]

pretty sure you talk shit because IF it was right then you loose 9 points when you get killed with 4 assists in the actual point system...

you dont get - points for every one who gets + points for your kill...

wtf you talking about....


death is constant -5 pts and no assist stacking - points .....

the actual point system isn't closed as well ( like you said) - victim gets -5 killer gets +5 all assisterS get +1 -> no closed system

[it's 8 in the morning and i am tired sry when i completely missunderstood you :))

did u actually read the first line of my post? My point is, that it would fuck the closed system up even more if u muliply it and to prevent it u´d have to make someone pay for the huge amount of assist points

and on a sidenote, i always had the impression there are way more rampage than feeder so its probably even, streak goes in both ways the swap account thing and the leaver penalty probably works quite well against the hero exp loosers, but somewhere the exp has to come from after all as we start at 0.

The important thing is, that u dont gain infinite exp by mass games, in my eyes the current system works fine in that aspect

[Knight925]

well all that with the closed system bothers me.
Just see it that way:
-leave before fb: -50, -100, ... xp
-swap accounts: -400 xp
-feeder and rampage +50/-50 aren't as evenly distributed as one might think. feeder seems to be more common than rampage.

so without assists bringing in some extra xp, the mvp boni can't maintain the xp ranges at themselves, DIV would slowly run out of xp points.

Edit: on the other hand, theres plenty of players, joining with 0 xp and feeding someone badly, then disappearing again, so it moght aswell be the other way round.

*signed*

yeah
we need those regular extra exp points.
otherwise you will have trouble filling games at the higher classes

but still:
if 2 ppl together kill a player with equal effort, one getting 5times as much xp, because the other one didnt killsteal?
or if i play a supporter and "give" our teams carry the kill for strategic reasons, does that really have to be punished that hard?

well this is easily solvable i think (:

right now its the following:
Amount of Players helping with the kill = gained exp for the team
1 player = 5 exp
2 player = 6 exp
3 player = 7 exp
4 player = 8 exp
5 player = 9 exp

this seems to work out on the global scale:
10000-20000 ppl in div low
2000 in divhigh
1000 in divleague
seems ok

so we only want to split those points up differently, so ksing isnt that important anymore for your ranking (still is for your hero each game, but thats forgotten after your team won)

so id suggest to split it up like the following:
Amount of Players helping with the kill = gained exp for the team = xp for the killer xp for the assisters
1 player = 5 exp = killer-5
2 player = 6 exp = killer-4 assist-2
3 player = 7 exp = killer-3 assist-2
4 player = 8 exp = killer-2 assist-2
5 player = 9 exp = killer-2 assist-2 (here it doesnt work out, but i guess this one additional point here wont tip the balance ^^)

this way assists are rewarded DOUBLE. yes its still just 2, but thats the double of 1 isnt it? ^^
and i guess the killer still really cant complain about his exp, because if so many ppl are involved its ok to get a little less

for ppl that think:
"oh no, this will totally cost me the deserved xp for my kills"
just think about the amount of assists u usually have? is it really a difference?

i would love this change, so div-games will have more supporters in them not just the ego-carries that cost u the game if the opponents play well

[hans2]

this seems to work out on the global scale:
10000-20000 ppl in div low
2000 in divhigh
1000 in divleague
seems ok

there are the actual numbers

[Knight925]

u just quoted me and wrote underneath that i wrote something?
nice (:

[Alastordemon]

Well a non-closed-system just leads to the endresult much faster than a closed one, doesn't it?

But I remember both ideas being up in the past already (not your fault of course, div just came back - you couldn't know that), but it's good to have them in focus again, because I consider them to be more fair as it is right now (and I like them both). Hopefully hans really decides to have one of these two as a possible alternative to the version we have right now.

Non-closed version if he considers a faster progress to be better or elseways the closed one.


Do it! Do it! :D


Edit:

u just quoted me and wrote underneath that i wrote something?
nice (:

I think he just wanted to tell you that these numbers will change on the long run ;)

[bobo)ftw]

First time i aggre with you. My options i had more like if i understand hans2 right, 2points for assist and 4 for kill. So kill isnt' that much but still mucher. And assist get too little bit more

good idea :)

[Knight925]

i read it now 4 times
the first 3 times i somehow managed to make myself NOT writing it but now i have to:

there is no such word as "mucher" ^^

[D.W.M.C]

there is no such word as "mucher" ^^

Google-translator ftw