Dota bot system.

[Piratez]

Seriously, you should change the way it works, that thing that autokicks people with low exp to give places to people with high exp is a very bad idea, the first 10 players to join should be the 10 playing, unless they leave/go observer. The idea of balancing teams isn't too bad, but kicking people is.

How can new players start playing in DIV bots? They get autokicked from every safelow game.

[SIark.]

well upgrades = better game cause better players - at least in theory

and it should not be removed except in safelow

dont think anyone cares of a GG in safelow and lowexper can never play with those upgrades - even if there are 5-6 bots, the bots fill like shit and while those 10 seconds till the game starts they will be upgraded surely

[Piratez]

In theory, yes. But in practic, not at all. Nobody knows how often high skilled players may want to start playing DIV, and be unable to do it because of this system.

Why wouldn't safelow players care about having a good game? That doesn't make sense in my opinion, EVERYONE wants to have good games. And also, I've seen very bad players in safehigh, so you aren't sure to have a good game in safehigh neither.


I still think it would be better to remove this unfair system in every DIV level, first to come should be first served. It's not only unfair for low exp players, but it's also annoying when the counter is at 2-3 and someone gets kicked to let someone join, counter back to 10 and games end up taking over 30 mins to start.

[Pthirus_pubis]

In theory, yes. But in practic, not at all. Nobody knows how often high skilled players may want to start playing DIV, and be unable to do it because of this system.

Why wouldn't safelow players care about having a good game? That doesn't make sense in my opinion, EVERYONE wants to have good games. And also, I've seen very bad players in safehigh, so you aren't sure to have a good game in safehigh neither.


I still think it would be better to remove this unfair system in every DIV level, first to come should be first served. It's not only unfair for low exp players, but it's also annoying when the counter is at 2-3 and someone gets kicked to let someone join, counter back to 10 and games end up taking over 30 mins to start.

i created some accounts and i never had big problems with that, u get kicked often but there are many games as well, its much worse to hang with a lil exp over the border so u cant play safehigh anymore and get permakicked in league, since there arent that many games open

[SIark.]

u arent allowed to expect a gg at safelow when also 0 exper can play, who may not know this game.
otherwise (if u expect a gg) why are u against upgrades?

if safehigh is still too noob for u - get exp for league ^^

div = survival of the strongest... u wanna be gm? u dont want to be upgraded? u want to play games of higher quality? just get exp. and its not like u can never play games.

plus, due to this upgradeshit u will not play shitty because u dont want to get in the situation where u could be upgraded all the time

[Piratez]

Well, I created a new account, wanted to play with a friend who also had 0 exp, I took like 30 mins to get in a game which started...

[SIark.]

well y thats the problem of safelow

so maybe 1 bot of safelow is without upgrades or something. ask hans - he wont do it anyway :D

[Pthirus_pubis]

Well, I created a new account, wanted to play with a friend who also had 0 exp, I took like 30 mins to get in a game which started...

and if u have won this single game u already have a way better chance to not get upgraded anymore

[SIark.]

and if u have won this single game u already have a way better chance to not get upgraded anymore

y, now u only wait 15-20 minutes. and dont lose this game or u have to wait 30 mins again

waiting time of 45min for 2 games ...thats a single full game - i dont know

[Pthirus_pubis]

y, now u only wait 15-20 minutes. and dont lose this game or u have to wait 30 mins again

waiting time of 45min for 2 games ...thats a single full game - i dont know

its not so hard to win some games in safelow ... thanks to mvp and ownage bonus u loose about 20-50 exp and win 200-300, so even if u have 50% win (wich sucks in safelow with a new account) u are out of the shit in 1-3 games and with a couple more u are in safehigh. If u arent u will never make it to league and stay there anyway :/ Its not like everyone is waiting for games that long, only if u have a new acc (or suck rly bad and are stuck at 0 exp...). u only have to endure this once after all

[Piratez]

its not so hard to win some games in safelow ... thanks to mvp and ownage bonus u loose about 20-50 exp and win 200-300, so even if u have 50% win (wich sucks in safelow with a new account) u are out of the shit in 1-3 games and with a couple more u are in safehigh. If u arent u will never make it to league and stay there anyway :/ Its not like everyone is waiting for games that long, only if u have a new acc (or suck rly bad and are stuck at 0 exp...). u only have to endure this once after all

Still, what are the advantages of having upgrade? No real advantage, only theorical advantages.

What are the advantages of not having upgrade?
Everyone can play
Waiting time goes from 1 hour(maybe a bit exagerated) to 2 mins, for EVERYONE.
Start counter doesn't restart 50 times before being able to start a game.
High exp people can abuse less of their high exp.
I could probably find a few more, but I think this is enough to show how bad exp upgrades are.

[Pthirus_pubis]

Still, what are the advantages of having upgrade? No real advantage, only theorical advantages.

What are the advantages of not having upgrade?
Everyone can play
Waiting time goes from 1 hour(maybe a bit exagerated) to 2 mins, for EVERYONE.
Start counter doesn't restart 50 times before being able to start a game.
High exp people can abuse less of their high exp.
I could probably find a few more, but I think this is enough to show how bad exp upgrades are.

this isnt some tree hugging i love the world group here ^^ the effect is that the players with high exp kick the ones with less out, and that is wanted! ofc the ones with more exp have a higher status in the league as they play better and or more and are thus more valuable to the league as the goal is to get a league that is as high skilled as possible. Div isnt nab friendly ;P ofc its always nice to see some new faces, but the good players will get over these problems pretty fast, and the other ones can (sorry for that) just fuck off

if this was meant to be a place where everyone can play with everyone and have the same rights it wouldnt be a league, this is about competition after all

[Piratez]

this isnt some tree hugging i love the world group here ^^ the effect is that the players with high exp kick the ones with less out, and that is wanted! ofc the ones with more exp have a higher status in the league as they play better and or more and are thus more valuable to the league as the goal is to get a league that is as high skilled as possible. Div isnt nab friendly ;P ofc its always nice to see some new faces, but the good players will get over these problems pretty fast, and the other ones can (sorry for that) just fuck off

if this was meant to be a place where everyone can play with everyone and have the same rights it wouldnt be a league, this is about competition after all

I've never been in league (I don't only play DIV, I don't play much, and when I had 2k+ points I got pissed at my aweful teams 2-3 times and I started to feed, I was bored of dota anyways, but now that I think of it I don't know why I did it, I never rage or want to feed or leave or things like that), but I haven't often seen decent people in high (even less in low) so I don't really understand "as the goal is to get a league that is as high skilled as possible".
Anyways, right now I have like 1.5k exp and I'll probably get to league soon I'll guess, but still, I think that removing upgrades is way better than having them. I just can't find any real positive points for having upgrades, while I can find so many for removing it.

[Aravis]

Yeah perhaps Hans2 should adjust the bots for newcomers in the DIV league.

Something like you dont get kicked with your very DIV first game, so you have the chance of getting 100exp and having it easier to play.

[SIark.]

in safelow are no differences in exp - a 1000 exp can suck more than a 200 exp

but in higher leagues there is mostly a difference between an 1,7k and a 3,5k (mostly because of quantity of games)

so when both have the same chances to play - where should be the "league" part here?

y remove it from "kreisliga" but not from "ober- und bundesliga" ^^

[Piratez]

in safelow are no differences in exp - a 1000 exp can suck more than a 200 exp

but in higher leagues there is mostly a difference between an 1,7k and a 3,5k (mostly because of quantity of games)

so when both have the same chances to play - where should be the "league" part here?

y remove it from "kreisliga" but not from "ober- und bundesliga" ^^


A league isn't forced to be "professional" (= high skilled or whatever you want to call it), and too bad I've never played DIV-League, but are you telling me that you always get good games in league? VS never go carry, always buy wards? You never see 3 carries or more in a team? There's always at least 2 support heros? Teammates decide together what heros each one takes?

[SIark.]

A league isn't forced to be "professional" (= high skilled or whatever you want to call it), and too bad I've never played DIV-League, but are you telling me that you always get good games in league? VS never go carry, always buy wards? You never see 3 carries or more in a team? There's always at least 2 support heros? Teammates decide together what heros each one takes?

well its like in real sports...if u play in any team and someone comes who is just better than u - u will be kicked out and he get the place

y it even happens in league, but this is just because u have random mates - example soccer: a defender cant play like a striker and a striker cant be a goalkeeper. also its because of the expsystem. ursa will definitely get more exp than a kotl.

besides its about skill. this nonsupport vs could play more useful than this supporting venge in low, what u won't see anyway

[Pthirus_pubis]

well its like in real sports...if u play in any team and someone comes who is just better than u - u will be kicked out and he get the place

y it even happens in league, but this is just because u have random mates - example soccer: a defender cant play like a striker and a striker cant be a goalkeeper. also its because of the expsystem. ursa will definitely get more exp than a kotl.

besides its about skill. this nonsupport vs could play more useful than this supporting venge in low, what u won't see anyway

amen



its as simple as that, its a league, so the best players at top get the games, there is a place for everyone u "can" play with 0 exp in safelow, see it like that

there are 300 people that wanna play, but there are only 150 slots

now it doesnt matter if u upgrade them or not, 150 wont get a slot (yet) the only change in ur case would be, that 150 random players get a slot in the current system the 150 best players get a slot, fair deal in my eyes.

the problem isnt the upgrade but that in safelow there are too many players and too less bots (at most times) if its late at night u are sometimes happy when the game is full in league, complete different story there

the only thing that i think is a good idea is the no-kick rule for first time players, but dont remove the freakin upgrade >.>

[Piratez]

Yesterday a game took around 30 minutes to start thanks to this upgrade system.
I think I have a better idea now: remove the upgrade during countdown, that allows good players to get in while people get spoof checked, etc. and it doesnt make games take over 20 minutes to start.

[hans2]

Yesterday a game took around 30 minutes to start thanks to this upgrade system.
I think I have a better idea now: remove the upgrade during countdown, that allows good players to get in while people get spoof checked, etc. and it doesnt make games take over 20 minutes to start.

I guess gm was afk?
well u are free to switch to other bot
no need to stay ingame when gm is afk or dont want to start

[SIark.]

I guess gm was afk?
well u are free to switch to other bot
no need to stay ingame when gm is afk or dont want to start

i think he is just exaggerating to mention that there are really some times where games need a while to start because of those upgrades while countdown

[Piratez]

I guess gm was afk?
well u are free to switch to other bot
no need to stay ingame when gm is afk or dont want to start

No, it was because the countdown could never get to 0, kept restarting because people joined with the upgrade system.

[hans2]

i was safelow game?

[Piratez]

i was safelow game?

That one, I think it was a safelow, but it has happened to me on safelow AND on safehigh. By the way, I wasn't exagerating, it really took over 20 minutes.

[SIark.]

lol there are mass bots and u wait 20 minutes? whatever

[Piratez]

lol there are mass bots and u wait 20 minutes? whatever

I just wanted to see if it would ever start, it didn't so I left after 20 mins.