No more of this RGC

[kizo]

I played here for a while hoping that you would solve the problems with the leavers and cheaters and it seems you pretend that you are stupid covering this up so the number of people playing are high.

Dota is played for many years now and you were unable to find a solution for this. This can be done but tell the truth about it. The number of players is more important then clean games.

If you search on google an anti maphack all results are "maphack final version". The dream dota feature was easy to implement to detect maphackers and beeing unable to find a solution for leavers is just an excuse.

Create games where only people higher than 1600 points can join. Oh no we need all people to play.

Last game for me here. Fuck your pathetic excuses regarding leavers and cheaters.

The truth is that you want them here.

[Ks.M.Coco]

Maybe instead of whining on RGC you can go post Vouch Request for other MODERATED channels,If you got 30+ games and you are mannerd,You got vouch for DR.Community(channel that based on manners+moderated channel),So instead of whining go try to get-in other channels,not only for public games.

[kizo]

Your "manners" are in conflict with the freedom of speech. All flamers have a good reason to flame. All leavers, noobs and cheaters find in your "manners" a rescue and and a way to fight back.

One player who has 400 games played 0% disconnect and flamed noobs, leavers and cheaters from time to time has less value than one who has "manners" and ruines games?

[Sir Rogers]

So could you recap what you're angry about? If it's about the speed of changes happening, I couldn't do anything the last 3 weeks and I am currently spending the majority of the time coding chat server stability fixes. Things will always go slower when it's one person working on a free client, compared to a team of a few dozen or a few hundred coders working on a project.

I have played many online games, which I paid for, even games which are based on DotA: HoN and LoL. I tried them. And guess what, they all have the same problem. And there are tons of people creating a matchmaking system for their game - and it still sucks. No offense to S2 Games or Riot Games, the makers of those games. My point is that no matter where or what you play, you have that problem. Sometimes more frequently, sometimes less frequently. I have not seen a single system yet which will give you a perfectly balanced game, every single time you play. If you find such a game, please let me know.

I am going to try different approaches to the leaver problem until I find something that works. If you want a list, I want to try a disc ratio system, a leaver flag system, a system with two separated gaming pools, a matchmaking system, the list is endless of things that I could try. The bottom line here is that time is the limitation. I've just redone how the !votermk command works and I'm waiting for feedback on that.

Oh yeah, and the points limited system you mentioned in your first post, that's on the list of system I was planning on trying. However I couldn't make any changes yet, because I need to get the chat server stable like it used to be first, before I add new things. I don't just add features and leave old ones bugged, if I did RGC would turn into Garena2 within a year, and crash all the time and not work properly.

Now let's assume I will implement a point-based room system. A few days later you or someone else would complain: "We have this 1850 guy who leaves all games, and he can do that because he has so many points, it doesn't affect him." - There is no perfect system as I said before, but I will try to find a solution as fast as I can.

And besides I have noticed you posting a lot of things, and I'm glad to see an active and engaged user. I know that a lot of things aren't great yet, but all I can say is that I'm constantly working to improve them. Although you may not see it, some things change fast and other take some time. That's just life.


Regards,
Sir Rogers

[kizo]

I undestand your work and i appreciate it. Really i do.

Sometimes after a streak of games outnumbered by the opposite team, all four of your team-mates stay fountain after 7 minutes of game played you can`t say oh that is life. I cannot understand how can one give up and stay spectator fountain after 7 minutes of game. Besides that there are alot of maphackers and beeing difficult to ban them they will be here.
I do not like to lose when i know i play better then the other team but they win because they outnumber you.

Please understand that my flaming and my "anger" goes towards the people that ruin games and not towards the staff or the forum members reading this.

Delete this thread please. I will have pacience to wait for the changes.

Thank you

[my_name_is_8D]

Your "manners" are in conflict with the freedom of speech. All flamers have a good reason to flame. All leavers, noobs and cheaters find in your "manners" a rescue and and a way to fight back.

One player who has 400 games played 0% disconnect and flamed noobs, leavers and cheaters from time to time has less value than one who has "manners" and ruines games?

so fuckin true
+ idiot admins.. :D


I dont know who you are but I wanna fuck with you irl XD

[Sir Rogers]

I undestand your work and i appreciate it. Really i do.

Sometimes after a streak of games outnumbered by the opposite team, all four of your team-mates stay fountain after 7 minutes of game played you can`t say oh that is life. I cannot understand how can one give up and stay spectator fountain after 7 minutes of game. Besides that there are alot of maphackers and beeing difficult to ban them they will be here.
I do not like to lose when i know i play better then the other team but they win because they outnumber you.

Please understand that my flaming and my "anger" goes towards the people that ruin games and not towards the staff or the forum members reading this.

Delete this thread please. I will have pacience to wait for the changes.

Thank you

No I am not going to delete the thread, I don't like deleting things. I'd like to talk about it. The only reason why things change is because people become angry and try to make a change. The only reason why RGC even exists is because I was angry and disappointed and wanted to create something better for other dota players.

If you have any suggestions on how you would like the situation to be handled, please let me know. I am not sure yet what I want to try first. I think I'll try point-based channels first, but I am not sure they will help, since the point system is not 100% indicative of skill or reliability, it is a mix of both. I could try a leaver-restricted/point based channel with balancing being done on winratio, that would be some sort of hybrid that could adress both issues.

In every single online game there are only two issues which have to be solved:
1) Reliability
2) Skill

Both issues are usually solved by most games in general by making them single player or 1v1, be it Chess, SC2 or any other game. When you have the chance to play 1v1 and you get leavers etc in other games, you can accept it, because it's just what it's like and you have the choice to play leaver-free games if you want to. That's different with DotA and RGC, since it is 5v5 only.

I mean I played LoL and HoN for a long while, I gave it a good try. None of the games have a working matchmaking system. HoN just recently introduced their matchmaking and you get gameruiners in every single game. I played 5 games to try the system. I've either had afkers/leavers/feeders in every single on of the games. My problem isn't that I don't want to make a change, I got tons of ideas and I am just lacking resources really.

The points system was something I could make quickly, a dirty hotfix if you want to sort a problem temporarily. I might do the same for the leaver problem, focus on RGC stability and scalability and maybe try to gather some money and hire people to help me. That's one thing I'm strongly considering. But that's beside the point, I'd like to hear your suggestions about the situation.


In the long term I'd like to build this, and feel free to comment on it please:
1) A system that separates reliable players from leavers, automatically giving a global % threshold and checking when the player disced for the last time. I.e. not allowing people with a disc within the last 10-20 games into the "reliable" system.
2) After separating reliable from non-reliable users it would separate via skill.
3) I would make an extensive formula for skill & performance calculation, which would be measured over the user's last 50 games, to make sure it's accurate, maybe less if the user had a 3month break from gaming.
4) The system would use different criteria to judge a player:
*Reliability (disconnects)
*Overall performance (Winratio)
*Team performance (ganks/teamplay/etc - yes, that's measurable with the small data you get from dota)
*Personal performance (creepstats, k/d/a, ...)
*Playertype (not sure yet if that's feasible, but it may be possible to arrange players by types, making sure every team gets one carry, one ganker, etc.. - it's just an idea, it may not be realistic, as I dont know yet how that could be determined)
5) It would be an automatic system, you could sign for a geographical region (Brasil, Europe, Romania, ...) depending on where there are hostbots available. The matchmaking system would put 10 players together and automatically host a game for them and get all 10 of them into one channel. There could be a special matchmaking ladder for each region and lots of other cool things.

Another important thing that I have to build is an ingame reconnect system and a transparent chat reconnect system. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing from you.


Regards,
Sir Rogers

[kizo]

I believe that it`s better to flag players that cheat and leave instead of banning them. Like life in prison against execution :) . A single channel for europe high level would be good not to separate players in many channels. A lot of people want to play with noobs and leavers when they have a team and want to score points and a <1550 points room would give players that play alone an alternative. As i can see reaching 1500 points it`s a problem for many and separating from 1550 and up would be enough.

The diffrence here seeing the many new good things that come with RGC is that the level of gameplay is so much higher than other platforms. I see the importance of leavers and cheaters like this...why should i give up my 35 level account on other platform when here are the same problems.
The platform now works so good i forgot at some point that it is in developing phase :)

I believe that the last 20 games disconnect flag would be efficient with the reconnect feature enabled. One question here...if you are flagged for leaving a game how do you reach the number of games needed without leave to remove the flag?

Playertype is not a permanent thing. If you play support 2,3 games you want to play carry next game and so on.

I was thinking about the signing method. People sign games when they are with friends and if one of their friends didn`t sign fast enough then they sign again leaving lots of created games with less players. Just an ideea here...if at all time in warcraft there would be let`s say 2 games created <1550 points allowed and 2 games >1550 points. When one of them is full and starts another is created instantly with the same joining criteria. I have seen if you sign and join another game and you are currently signed for a game you are taken out of the platform sign list and the reverse of this is that if you join a game you can be put on a list :) . The number of starting games can be 2 or how many are needed to keep up with the player flow.

Dunno if matchmaking is so good. The current system letting you chose who you play with seems better. Only problem is to flag leavers and cheaters.

I was thinking of the dream dota features regarding click on rune in fog and notify when gold hack is used. A player once acused an opponent of sending gold during the game and when game finished i looked at resource trade and he was right. He told me some time ago that he has a modified w3 wich shows him who clicks in fog and who sends gold not having dream dota installed.

It was the only anti maphack i could find but beeing a cheat itself i could no use it...

Dunno if this makes any sense i`m kinda tired.

This are just personal opinions of mine.

Regards,

kizo

[Blu3_slayeR]

If you are good enough,you can simply go on other better leagues..

[Fear.ItseLF)]

Word of advice ; stop playing pubs.

[Frag(-_-)Artist]

Kizo you have many valid arguments i must agree with and with which i was trying to fight since rankstats was implemented. Most valid point is dr.com, not only you can't tell anything to autoattacker feeder but the quality of games is pretty akward. Its ussualy 5stack vs these "mannered".

I simple liked the old community. There was pretty much like no leavers, no flamers, no autoattacking/stealing supporters, NO RANKSTATS! Just pure fun and REAL Community!

But you should show more respect to Rogers for his work on RGC and maybe to vet community (you seems like new for me).

[ChriseC]

leavers arnt punished enough, thats true

nobody cares about points :D

there should be 2 rooms.
one as it is right now for everyone
and a secound u can join with a decent number of points, but more important with less than X leaver per XX games.

[Neon_BlacK]

Your "manners" are in conflict with the freedom of speech. All flamers have a good reason to flame. All leavers, noobs and cheaters find in your "manners" a rescue and and a way to fight back.


I love you

[bitchgotraped]

In every software/utility/game/..etc there are cracks/keygens/serials .
Everything is free instead of buying something.

It's the same with dota, how ever you try to implement or to stop that maphacking process.
Coders/Programmers will always find a way (backdoor) to re-code a new maphack version.

So no client can't stop those maphackers.

If you're that get angry that you're loosing from a hack, you can wait for DOTA2 then.
I'm sure IceFrog and everyone who is in process of coding it are sure and aware of blocking/auto banning maphackers.


TC

[the.DarkspaWn]

im kind of feel sad not only for kizo, for my self and some treu real players out there who knows whats about.
my dream in this game is to be honest to ipban this maphackers instantly and the leavers just for 1 week, to see how it works on this organisation.
just give it a try.
the time you sign for a game u need to be ready and knows that you are going to play a game and u are sure about it.
after the game start u wont leave the game anymore and stay till the end lose or not.
if 1 player just leave the game from the start just post the replay and ban him for 1 week or some days.
just change the rulez a bit and we will get a good client here with good rulez and we all can play and have some fun togeter.
CHANGE PLZ THE RULEZ<< I have alot of free times at home i can give some help to be a good staff and some good support.
just let me give a try and help.
we can just solve this problem togeter.
im tired about those maphackers low brainers and leavers.
the first time i was here at RGC it wanst like this.
and im old enough to ahndle this.
i dont want to insult nobody but i dont like thos kids with admin rights and they just do what they want to or less.
i want to see them work harder and bring some good ideas to help Rogers out here, and not having admin rights and doing nothing.
just let me handle and give i try. i hope i will talk to Rogers 1 day and he have some time to listen to me doh.

no problem god bless............ !zz.pro?R_ay aka RAY .