The Captains thread (for -cm mode players)

[unsaufi-]

I love to see that these days Captains mode (-cm) is very popular in the Dotarank Community. But I hate to play cm with guys who fail in it. That begins in “eza wards pls” he gets boots… ::) and basic stuff like that. Always get wards and chicken in cm. In a classic line up the two int supporter gets the chicken and does the warding (whole game warding). No discussion about that pls.

But where I really like to see some discussion is the line up. There are usually 3 basic tactics. (At least that is what I know)

1. classic (1 carry 1 semi carry 2 support 1 tank)
2. pusher (eza, pit, enigma, spider etc.)
3. nuker (1 maiden getting mass aura 4 nuke spammers)

What I want to see from u is who is with who on a line and why. For example there are some classic lines ups like:

- Warlock + Carry (Luna, Spectra…) - means WL denies all heals carry perma and the carry can farm like hell
- Lehsrak + Sandking - Crusher with SK stuns lesh stuns and nukes + 2 hits of both
- Es + Puck – Crusher
- Lina + Tiny (or Sandking) – Cursher
- Leo + Leshrak Carry with initiation stun + mass nuke
- Omni + Huskar – Huskar can spam burning spears and ulti without getting dmg with repell on him
- Lich + Tide – 4 times slow/nukes on lvl 3
- Magnus + Lich – all dead on lvl 6 + Perma nukes

Or for Pushers

- Eza + Enigma – Fuck first Tower under 2 mid
- Solo mid Brood (Lame enough nothing to explain (-8 )

I think u got the clue. Just post your favourites lines up and why it rocks. And I see stuff like Weaver + Darkseer – Shield and Watchers… coming. That may own early game but it is useless in mid and l8 gaming.

I posted that because I hope it improves CM mode games in Dotarank a bit and I love to see some crazy line ups.
Have Fun

[Sirian]

it depends on the bans really, when i am around often rylai and enig get banned, also in dr games es/tide are always banned.. with those bans some captains still like to go aoe rape (roof/lock/mag etc..) which always loses vs my pusher picks (krob/pugna/brood).
one of my lineups:
rylai/eza/pit (any combo of these) top, krob mid, enig jungle, ranged carry bot.

[Gruufhai]

I recently had some fun with a friend of mine in public -ap games. We're just 2, so it fits to your question about -cm lanes.

It was all about: Rhasta + X

Where X is some random melee carry, we mostly used Naix or Void for it. Works (in pub).


Furion + Spectre was funny too since Spectre can get to the ensprouted enemy who cannot escape. Also, they both can gank mapwide.



In general, solid combinations included at least 1 ranged, at least 1 lategamer, at least 1 nuke, preferably some stun.

[joicE.]

mentioned enigma + kotl. What bout brood + kotl :P
1more thing that could shine is dirge + kotl with 5sec cd strenght shit spam ^^
anyhow kotl rapEs, even with mana leak range nerf (if i'm not wrong)

[Objuden]

I like to go Witch Doc and Pit Lord in one lane, Insane when u trap em at lvl 6 and use witch Ulti

[Sirian]

that would die vs a double stunner/nuker lane like lina/sk. or lich/tide or rylai/jugger even

[Sirian]

one of my favs: pudge + either drow/viper/omni

[roslin]

all with slow down ey ;] arrows , poison , ofc omnis aura :D

[joicE.]

omni would take aura instead of repel if lane with pudge? how is that

[roslin]

noob-ish / cock- ish

:D

[Sirian]

omni with 1 lvl of aura early is enuf really, aslong as ur pudge gets boots at the same time or before ur opponents. Hook+heal takes out 75%+ of enemies hp anyways so u dont need much rotchase..

[stereosushi]

omni would take aura instead of repel if lane with pudge? how is that


imo a bit senless pudge omni lane need repel and heal.

rot has enough slow.

[AttitudeProblem]

Well here fits also my experiences as I played LAN with my pal in DIV-league. We played together at one line and usually ganged also together and the result was total rape through the game.

Nice combo we played pretty often was Ezalor, as my friend loves it, and any nuke, for example Tiny and Nerubian Assasin with infinite mana is really goodiegoodie. Also some mass stun/nuke combos were nice, for example we played Tiny and Venge and our combined stats were something like 25-3.

We also got some epic pawns with Tiny&Axe combo, dagger on Tiny and the combo starts usually out of enemy's LoS, toss Axe, call, blink, stun and if somebody's lucky enough to survive, Axe's ulti should take care of him.

About the -cms I played, I can tell that IMO the best teambuild is 1 hell of a carry, like Mortred, Void or PL, something that will be _1nvincible_ at late game, 3 supports, Omni and Dazzle are always good picks, WL also and then one tank, basically Centaur but if you got good player for Panda, especially for his ulti, Panda will be almost better tank, but needs a bit more farm than Centaur.

[Sirian]

played a nice cm yesterday;
I soloed krob top, w1ldfire soloed mirana mid, we had daz/tide bot and a jungling axe.

attitudeproblem likes double stun lanes? well my krob raped sk/venge lane :o

edit:
the tide dropped when he was lvl 7 =/ and game lasted 50 mins.

[AttitudeProblem]

well I'm pretty sure that your opponents really sucked or you played your silences nicely, becouse even krob has nothing to say against venge&tiny, jsut swap and tiny stuns, then toss and another stun, about 1000 dmg jsut from nukes and no time for silence after lvl 11 becouse the swap range is too much...

[Sirian]

erm, first 5 lvls sk stun is pretty short, even if u get stunned by venge u still got e nough time if ur cautious enough. sk himself will never be able to initiate if you harras enough.

[unsaufi-]

Last two games we played bs + 4 nukers (cm, qop, zeus, etc...) and it was just a pain in the ***. Haha loved it. Bs was just running from kill to kill after lvl 6 (my bs stats where like 32:2 – we had balanced teams and no pub stomp – bs silence ftw. special with maiden aura). Also like that ganging style becoming popular. With heros like roaming atropos, alchi or venge.

I would love to see more aggressive ganging games. They need a lot of team play but they are so much fun. xD

[stereosushi]

bs/magnus mid against coco is an good counter ;)

bs gets bottle 2 null talisman and dagon. :-O

[Sunris3]

bs with dagon - really funny ;). U will never succeed vs skilled people with dagon. Ur ulty + dagon =... lets say 1 kill, but other 4 guys will rape you if they play like team.
I can defend my words with example. Lets say bs plays carry hero - with dagon he can kill only 1 hero and others will rape him and even his support cant do anything because at late game enemyes carry will own more than dagon seeker. We talk about skilled players which know what teamfight is.
Let see the other direction - bs is trying to play support - ganger - just moves through lanes and tryes to gang after 6. Then the carry must be someone other hero (pl, naix, admiral, brood, etc). This situation is even more alwful because the team with seeker will be raped early - in lanes. Seeker is not strong lane hero before 6. Other lane must be the "carry" + support ( purpose = just surviving and farming) (warlock, eza, dazzle, etc). Then the only chance remains in solo lane hero. Even if soloing hero performs good vs well farmed laned anemyes is just very hard. If the solo hero get owned in his lane... then we talk about... simple ownage.
Seeker with dagon in pubs - mb nice
Seeker with dagon in cw - pity
Best items for this hero are radiance, or battle fury, mb yasha
I dont mention that bkb and mb simple teleport is > bs

[unsaufi-]

How say it kind… hm... :-X
I explain it to u…

Bs with dagon is bullshit and I bet it was a joke of stereo. Bs needs bkb ofc… then either Diffusal or Radiance… depends on farm and enemies (wl for example). And with 4 nukers in Team bs just fucks whole team don´t worry.

Btw. Bs can silence one Hero and kill another with ulti. So don´t say he is a bad carry. He may get fucked hard by Srladar or Bara.
Skill build: Blood Bath, Bloodrage, Blood Bath, Thirst, Blood Bath, ulti, Blood Bath, Thirst, Thirst, Thirst mass stats… etc…
First items: 3 slippers, tangos, 1 branch – I go on pt and 3 wraths fast then bkb. Pt left on str for hp.

Blood bath is perfect for farming. Last hit everything (+denies ofc). Go top and also pull for reg. Babysitter should be a disabler. I like cm but lion for example should do it too.

In Team fights all kills are left for u. With 4 nukers they are pretty fast low hp. So your team still can see them and u can just last hit them for reg.

PS: The only hero that should get Dagon in serious gaming is na. At least that is my point of few.

[Sirian]

PS: The only hero that should get Dagon in serious gaming is na. At least that is my point of few.



u mis doc there =)

[unsaufi-]

Hell no if I say “only hero” I mean only hero. Doc really needs no dagon… He needs a big mana pool to perma heal his team and spamm stun. Guinsoos is so much better for the team. Even Aghamins is not bad on him special with a bkb. And don’t come with fucking lothars (see enigma discussion) this item is just useless. But we are getting of topic.

Btw. I had to face evil knevil Kotl + Lancer line with two very good players. Lucky I was puck with shift but this line is really pain. I mean every nuker + kotl line is pain but lancer is a carry and can free farm + mass dmg on enemy heros with lance.

Also like the Slardar + Dazzle line. This is really a hero killer line. 8)

[Losfer]

Tbh, i dont like cm very much, but i usually sign up for it. The reason is that you play the same lineup against the same lineup over and over again. And alot of the heroes that are picked there doesent fit my agressive playstyle at all. CM is a good mode for teamplay and learning new heros, but still think rd is funnier

[Shoot3r]

Best gangers : Nerubian assasin (For newbies Wink mana burn,stun and ulti kills almost all int heroes and agi's and doesent let them be fat or spam spells on you.)
: Earthshaker (For newbies well if used properly stun can dmg,block enemies,also on a lane with a another stuner he can become fat and pawn the late game.)
: Pudge (He can kill easily on the early mid game alone with a combo hook , ulti , rot he does what a ganger should do stop carrys to farm.)

Best initators : Axe (A very good initator with hes Berkserk call armor that he gets lets him to get a minor dmg also ulti provides a insta kill in every team battle.)
: Magnus (He is always used in combos with all kinds of heroes , he can help carrys with hes empover and become a carry himself.)
: Centaur (He is like a merge of axe and magnus , he has a decent AoE stun and a aura that dmgs all who atack him also he has a large amount of strength.)
: Tauren chieftain (He is a specific kind of initiators he can initiate from a distance.)
: Rooftrellen (Pretty same as magnus has a large disable and also can help by supporting carrys with armor.)
: Tidehunter (Not much to say third spell protects him from harm Smiley and hes ulti is briliant.)

Best supporters : Omniknight (One of the best supporter in the games , has a enormus heal that dmgs all around him , also a 20 minute magic imunity and the best is hes ulti thats just great , with using all 3 spells properly your teammates cannot die.)
:Abbadon (Can be used as a tank for the team becouse of hes ultis so he can take all the demage also has a decent heal and a good shield Smiley.)

Best pusher : Broodmother(Can easly control the lane , spawn spiderlings push while the other part of the team is dieing in teambattles and flaming her Cheesy .)

Best junglers : Axe (With hes spin he can easly farm in the woods.)
: Centaur (Also like axe hes aura returns demage so he easily kills neutrals.)
: Lycan (He can summon wolves to tank for him.)
: Naix (Has a very good lifesteal so he kills neutrals with ease.)

Best carrys:Troll,Mortred,Riki,Slardar,Phantom Lancer,Barathrum,Bloodseeker(Meybe more but i wont comment these just will say for newbies just HARAS them and DONT LET THEM FARM.) Cheesy


I think this will helo some new players to learn i wrote this so they can come here and read this so they know what they are getting into when they choose these heroes and what will be exepted from them.

Thanks for reading

Regards,Freestyler^



These are just meele heroes i will make a new version with ranged also :)

[DRS]marrowxmas]

Firstival your list is not up to date, mybe it fits fine according to publics, but for league you have to replace it through "playable´s" and it is not as static that you transform a hero in only one group. It depends on the strategy you take, on the items and on the players. And ofc on the possibilities of the hero.
At the start of the thread unsaufi- did allready post some strategies. Usually only classic strat is taken. The other two do not have to be worse, but they are not that easy to play like classic and they do need much more focus and gamebreaking aspects. For classic strat no true carry is required. Semi-carries tend to fit much better in most pick systems, as they can participate in fights without having done 3 big items allready. For example troll warlord or luna are not the best choices and kinda oldschool, cause in good games the point, where they are able to rule the game wont be reached, only if the skill difference between the teams is very high. In this case, even if the general niveau is high it tends to be fun, so choices are not serious :D

Here is the list of useful heroes for 6.51b, now c done by my mate nachtwaechter. I am sure it still got some laggs but it should show the system much better.
TC, Potm, Lion, Lina, Lesh, Warlock, ES, Puck, Kunkka, Enigma, Krobe, Nekro, UD, Bane, Rastha, Tide, Zeus, Maiden, Kotl, Axe, Nerub, Ench, Avernus, Yugger, morph, viper, sandking, vengeful, lyca, bm, (rexxar), sven, batrider, leoric, (visage), BS
There are some useless heroes like lanaya who is not on this list.... for the other heroes i do not have such an "only-in-one-direction-going" opinion.... i mean they do not suck that hard at least in my mind and they could fit in some sort of strategy too.... or they are simply missing by mistake ^^

Out of those heroes the usual -cm setup should consist. If somebody asks me for it i could point out some of my clanwars by picks, lane-ups, several ingame choices and etc.
Just make some comments, show interest and I do this for you.

[FrO.oZeN]

... firstival this is bullshit. Hello and good morning im TyR) since i dunno my pw, taking FrO,oZeN's acc here.

You can use every single hero in clanwars, depending on the favourites of each player and the strategy you try to bring through. You cannot even say there are more worthy heroes than others, since you cannot compare the role of a SK to a Lanaya's one. (And yes, you can play Lanaya/Ursa/etc. in cw, why not)
"The list of useful heroes", lal

Your bans should be counterbans to a possible enemystrategy and especially counterbans for the worst heroes against the strategy you would like to play right now. Better it is not to create a strategy way before you play but at the same time enemies are banning/picking. Theres quite a lot to think about and im in holidays now, Boom Boom Pow.

This is surely no personal offense, it totally doesnt matter what i think about you or you about me. Just didnt want to let people spread such things, cant take it and dont want my RaGinG CM ppl get worse if they read this lol...

[unsaufi-]

… Hrhr sweet martktplatz (DRS]marrowxmas) didn’t knew u play high skill cw games… :rolleyes:

Pusher and ganger is more and more important special with roaming heroes. If u want I can play a cw vs your team and u let us pick pusher line up… nvm imba posts here so far you all know that the Topic is about hero combos and not looking cool and being the most pro cpt. =F

[DRS]marrowxmas]

pusher and ganker is very good but you have to be high skilled to use this strategy well, or at least mid-high.....

i am only average player, who knows mode -cm and wastes many time on it....

[Sirian]

not really, if i see someone go enigma/axe jungle i always pick some heavy nuker/pusher line to counter/dominate their xtra solo.

and about ur ganger list, where are all the int/agi disablers/nukers? like 50% of all heroes is a proper ganger if played properly in the right -ma.

[MeatHead]

Btw, one of the best ways to learn (at least for me is to watch some high lvl game and see how they pick + ban) :)

[marcvs]

Nothing beats experience in picking/baning.
you should know all heroes,you should know what heroes your teammates and your oponnents prefer/play well.
and yet, you should have some experience , because theorycraft is lot different then practice an real game.

[stereosushi]

ench or bane or bat firstpick.

maiden overrated.
es overrated.
tc over-rated


nuff said'

[Cnacnel]

ench or bane or bat firstpick.

maiden overrated.
es overrated.
tc over-rated


nuff said'

maiden, maybe a bit, but the other two is not overrated imo.

[stereosushi]

ench or bane or bat firstpick.

maiden overrated.
es overrated.
tc over-rated


nuff said'

maiden, maybe a bit, but the other two is not overrated imo.


uhm you might be right but i just want to make it clear theyre nothing against ench, bane, bat as firstpick.

but es isnt rly overpowerd.
tc maybe a bit but its ok.
if i think about that old naix... pm me if u know how to beat him :-)

maiden is totally useless now even if you go for a nuker/roamer lineup like for example tinker, sven, venge, slardar, potm or clock.
im talking about highlevel games.

[MeatHead]

Old naix, gang him and nobody else! :P

[[http]prof.keos]

b- ]
ench or bane or bat firstpick.

viper imo